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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1056
   |
Posted - 2013.08.01 16:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
One can hope from now on Armor reps are as good as shield ones? -if so then the 15% on armor looks a bit under the weather.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1057
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 19:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Urkhan Law wrote:At the frigate level I'll gladly take that buff for my Rifter but ... Incursus, LOL?
That little frig may never be killable again... I agree with not buffing the deadspace/officer stuff. it is kind of.. well. op anyway. This is mostly complaints from people who try to sell these things for some odd 500 million a module.
Faction shield boosters deserve a bit of buff, Tech II a huge buff, but Deadspace ones are already way OP.
Then as someone just says above, fit an X-type SB best quality with x-type shield boost amp and take a look at the numbers.
Try doing same thing with armor reps no matter which one then tell us what happens?
ANd actually don't think incursus will be op in any form or shape, eve is not about 1v1 but players vs other players, solo pvp is not and should never be an argument of balance in an MMO daring to call it self an MMO.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1057
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 20:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Witchking Angmar wrote:http://tny.cz/cb6e52c2
Some numbers on the new boosters. Using tinypaste for better formatting.
Would it be too much to ask you to make under that page the same calculations for Armor reps, yes I'm lazy and bad with those things.
1st element that got my attention is cap efficiency difference in between T2 and dead space/officer, it's just about 140% better 
2nd is faction dead space difference is still 100% better
Nothing gets closer with armor reps from memory but maybe someone will refresh my mind about this.
Edit and not even accounting T2 or faction/dead space Shield boost amplifiers who can perfectly stack with resist rigs, increasing efficiency.
With armor we have a +%rep amount and cycle bonus (reps faster but consumes as much cap) but no way it gets with a single rig or module the same amount of rep bonus.
Not accounting of course on ships with rep bonus, combat boosters, links and implants, just flat numbers on simple ships. Difference is clearly abysmal.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1058
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 21:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sal Landry wrote:GreenSeed wrote:AARs being left out But AAR's aren't being left out.
Indeed
CCP Fozzie wrote:[b] Increase the rep amount for all armor repairers (including AARs) by 15%
CCP Fozzie how about tweak a bit those ARs pg/cap/cycle numbers? -I'm afraid this 15% while being an awesome addition is still a bit out of the line when we start comparing Faction AR and SBs and even greater is we compare dead space ARs vs SBs?
We also have nothing that can be compared with dead space or faction SBAs, ho yes we have a rig with a huge drawback but no navy/faction/dead space equivalent.
Implants and links should not be taken in to account, since this balance is about sub cap ships/modules therefore not relevant to the discussion at some point so my question remains valid I guess.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1060
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 22:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:Deadspace local tank will still be overpowered.
Confirming this. For a simple example lets pick the hated Hamgu with rep sub, a T2 SBA and an A type pith med SB.
It's 612 Hp rep per cycle and 800 OH
Add Crystals
Add Standard Blue Pill
Add boosting links like shield harmonizing and usual crap
You're getting over 1K physical reps per cycle on a medium shield repairer, it takes you no rig slot for it, and 1 med slot to increase your rep power to the point after the 2nd rep you've already gained more than fitting a faction shield extender, this is completely insane.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1060
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 22:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thank you for the work.
Huge difference indeed.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1061
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 23:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
maCH'EttE wrote:i did not understand one crap..
so which one is better, armor reps or shield reps.
Shields all day, at least for now and while the silliness of dead space shield boosters exist.
The best HP/cap/s for shield boosters is 0.84, the best number for armor reps is not even at half of 0.84
If you factor a T2 shield boost amplifier then the HP/cap/sec becomes beyond silly.
If you factor DS SBA it's even worst
If you pick a ship with enough mid slots, rep bonus, implants, combat boosters, OGB and dead space SBA+SB you see the picture.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1061
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 23:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Travasty Space wrote:Edit: the ASB vs AAR gives more to that point. You have really strong burst with the ASB but then nothing. Whereas the AAR gives a strong tank and either a weaker continued tank or reload.
Well AAR is nothing too because once you used all your charges you have no cap left anyway and AAR doesn't rep while reloading like ASB.
Now if you fit a 3mids armor ship with a cap booster instead of web yep you're going to rep a little bit (ridiculous amount) but also remember your AAR is only interesting over a regular rep when you overload it.
If you don't overload then you're using cap+nanites for a ridiculous amount or reps and still using cap booster charges, to add insult to injury you can't overload for all fight without loosing your rep which means again, you're using cap for a ridiculous amount of reps.
AAR is cool for sneaky prots/legions/armor lokis , hit&run, cool in frigates unless you're fighting hawks and blarpies with medium ASB's, cool when you are double rep fit or triple to provide a small boost when OH but it's way too much hassle compared with ASB.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1061
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 00:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:The second thing is that the best way to compare both tank is more dual rep vs SB+SBA than rep vs SB. But then, the comparison rapidly become really difficult because of combination number.
That would be true if SB+SBA were the equivalent of double armor reps but in fact this is very easy to verify it's impossible to compare or, how can you compare twice drawbacks (and not little ones) twice huge amounts of PG/CAP to 1 module using 1/3rd if not 1/4 the cap 4x faster cycling and a module using no cap ridiculous CPU/PG and ridiculous drawbacks?
There's no comparison possible, even if you pick a T2 rig + AR vs SB+SBA we're far away from anything comparable, shield modules are way out of whack for ages, numerous threads about this for ages and there's a verifiable reason for this: once you can fly all sub cap ships and fit them you understand quickly what are the "I win buttons"
It's really not for fun or because armor is so awesome armor ships often fit shieldmods except for large fleets, well except Baltec 
Even with mediocre number of mid slots you can push stronger ships than armor fitted, if you don't see an issue here but creativity I have to disagree with you. I'd see some creativity if the difference was made by player skill and not completely OP modules.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1064
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 12:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Roime wrote:CHRISTMAS CAME EARLY THIS YEAR
**** YEAH
And Sergeant, shield scrubs don't have RAH
Indeed but what's the efficiency of RAH knowing you're taking even more cap and increasing a single resist overtime?
Again it's situational and nice for small roaming gangs etc because chances you have to fight equal numbers over 10ships without logistics are close to null.
The moment you have logistics 1x 1600plate taking no cap and an extra resist plating is superior (resists always superior the moment you have logistics)
So lets put things in order:
400 cap use for T2 rep or Cap use+nanites for meh reps unless OH and still eat cap
cap use for RAH
cap use for hardeners
Edit to add: simple fact of shooting decent dps ammo also takes large chunks of your cap
Your 3 mid slot armor ship better not have to fight equal numbers after 5 unless it's a Proteus brick Legion or CS same race.
I'm not saying they will not succeed but just saying it's a silly micromanagement game in the game bringing no real benefit compared to ASB's or SB setups.
When was the last time you saw an armor tanker fitting A-Type medium or large reps? -those are extremely rare compared to A-Type SB pvp setups, and there's a reason for this, SB's are completely OP.
Shields are about boosting and armor overtime I'm ok of that old argument, however when shield ships push the same amounts of EHP better resist profile and reps efficiency it's no match.
Look at the amount of shield Vigilants fitted with ASB's and so one for other ships, try Double XL ASB domi some day, it's a pure dps brute with a dirty tank better have some friends to take it out before it cleans the field.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1068
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Posted - 2013.08.03 12:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:You dont active shield tank any of these ships in pvp, pve obviously doesnt matter in any balancing issues,
Sry to disagree with you but yes you do. We're talking here about ships and pvp situations out of fleet engagements but yes they do shield fit and rather good, so good they can beat up the same ship armor fitted twice.
Shield Brutix over Armor Brutix? -all day, ASB fit it is a pwnmobile
Shield Mega/Talos/Vigilant/Harby/Deimost (this one not only gets huge dps increase but seems it dies slower shield fitted) and known ishtar, just for the sake of some examples of armor ships already being exponentially better shield fitted and specially with links/combat boosters, far better than armor fitted all time.
If those are better shield fitted for solo small gang work it's certainly not because armor mods are too good well balanced vs shield mods or because players are all bad at fittings but rather the other way around.
The real solution is not half bad balances, take of mid slots, give badly balanced modules vs overpowered modules.
Don't tell me CCP can't recode ASBs so they now consume cap also, of course they can but they just don't want it, that simple.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1072
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 19:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:Sweet, my archon can now tank 10 supers with links, drugs, rep rigs and implants. (We already have 2 pimp fit archons that can tank 3 nyxes for ~10 minutes).
Perhaps you should stop overlooking the carriers when you buff the reps because all the changes are overdoing it just a little.
The issue comes from the +resist everyone says for ages is completely op. Take those 4% per lvl away, problem solved.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1072
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 19:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pelea Ming wrote:Shinzhi Xadi wrote:Pelea Ming wrote:I still find it hilarious I can put a stronger active tank on a Legion then I can on an Abaddon :P Old Tech 1 ship, vs ultra modern Tech 3 ship.. Still a Cruiser vs a Battleship. Kind of obscene that it overall takes less incoming damage (sig rad / speed tank) yet can also be fitted out to rep more armor per second.
And a Daredevil with single AAR decent prop mod and some thinking can tank an entire fleet of battleships shooting at it.
It's unfair, a frigate should not be able to tank or rep that much neither, amirite?
Edit: just in case you haven't noticed this sort of intelligent thinking is about the same level than the T3/BS comment, /sarcasm
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1072
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 21:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Now do you understand what the complaint on T3's rep power is?
Fly them all so no, don't understand or see a problem with for 2 reasons:
I don't use OGB while flying solo, implants combat boosters and whatnot 1v1 (+15) elite pvp.
When I fit an L A-type +SBA on loki I can't avoid trying to fit a large armor rep on my Proteus but I can't no matter what I do but then without much effort I can also fit an X-type on my loki but still no large armor rep on my Proteus while having a greater buffer can't tank the same number of ships for as long and still survive unless I dishonor gtfo (strategic retreat ).
Then I start tweaking a bit sleipnir fits and can safely tell you the problem doesn't come from the T3 rep sub or what the heck people complain about, ever tried to tank 15 arty Cyna gang with an Astarte and survive? -you can't but I can and did it often with a double xl-asb sleipnir.
The only problem comes from the OP links boosts+completely out of whack shield dead space modules. You guys don't want to admit it, don't want your solo (+alts) tralala pvp taken away which I can understand despite most arguments having no sense but in very specific situations that AREN'T relevant to any pvp balance. This game is an MMO, solo pvp/ships balance is not only irrelevant but stupid, talk about balance when difference in between tanking mods and their dedicated modules are so different and so badly balanced need some interest for the greater good and not only personal tr+ál+ál+á.
Now next time you want to argue about T3's rep openness remember about leave fleet not take drugs not fit pirate/named/fitting/navigation implants, then we might actually be able to discuss, until then I can't avoid laughing hard reading this thread and see my shield pvp setups becoming even more OP then they were before.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1079
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 12:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Roime wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
And a Daredevil with single AAR decent prop mod and some thinking can tank an entire fleet of battleships shooting at it.
It's unfair, a frigate should not be able to tank or rep that much neither, amirite?
Edit: just in case you haven't noticed this sort of intelligent thinking is about the same level than the T3/BS comment, /sarcasm
Except you failed in reading comprehension. The T3 has more RAW rep than the BS does. Before taking into account any sig/angular velocity mitigation, i.e. Sit both of them completely still inside frig optimal also sitting still and the T3 Reps more. Meaning it tanks dramatically more once you add in those factors. Now do you understand what the complaint on T3's rep power is? Have you noticed that the Legion, like all T3s, have the optional subsystem giving bonuses to rep amount? Compared to a battleship with rep local tank bonuses, T3s produce less raw reps. (Not saying that they'd actually tank less)
I did for a long time and that's why I laugh anyway reading these guys putting in the same sentence the "OP T3's" with "supercarrier tanks" "doomsday dps" "triage super self reps" etc.
Myths, because they can't do all of it at the same time, there's always a trade off and not a small one opening a huge defensive hole no one or very little cares to take the time to understand how to break or counter, OGBs just make them out of whack but at the very beginning it's not really the ship but some stupid mechanics that need to go away.
Let me just copy pasta again this guy comment : "The T3 has more RAW rep than the BS does."
Well maybe in his other game I don't know which one because in Eve T3's don't have a self build local rep bonus but it's a subsystem trading other stats which usually is buffer and less lows/mids.
Now without even going any further than the hated HAMgu while the ridiculous mount of reps from sub bonus on top of T2 SBA+dead space A-type med SB+combat booster+links+implants, I can simply take a Maelstrom for the same example and push even greater stupid numbers.
Yet do you see people complaining about those? -no because T3 with all those funky solo I win buttons is the best option overall over a fat slow ass battleship
How is this even possible in the first place?
-oversize shield modules for "x" hull, in armor you simply can't
-HPS/cap efficiency of dead space SBs (not even accounting officer SBs or SBAs) being in between 250% better (without links) to 900% when you factor all possible improvement methods/tools.
So if we want to talk about T3's tank/dps ability we need to do it right with a rep bonus battleship and we need to do it in between armor T3vsarmor BS then shield T3vs shield BS but try to compare both its like searching to get aids or cancer, it's just impossible because of so much illogical difference in HPS/cap between same size/meta armor reps vs shield reps.
No way in hell I get fingers in the nose over 5K local reps per 5s cycle with armor reps and certainly not at cruiser/bc size, yet this is possible with shields (wihtout OGB or whatsoever) while still accumulating as good if not bigger buffer than armor ones cap immunity good dps output and a rather good maneuverability for ships supposed to be thick tanks unsustainable but bursting huge chunks of it.
Yet why you are able to push 200k EHP on Tengus with blaster range dps? -is it the ship it self the problem or the silliness of shield mods, oversize prop mods etc?
The whole mechanics seem ok but it's modules that are way way left out of balance hammer for whatever unexplainable reason, yet numbers are there and easy to figure out as long as you can fly and use them all in different pvp situations.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1079
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 12:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hashi Lebwohl wrote: introduced a new passive shield hardner module which acts as a reactive hardener and a skill to improve its performance, shield resistance phasing.[/list]
The moment it takes as much cap per activation as armor this would be cool for my shield ships but knowing CCP this could very well end with a 15CPU 1pg module all passive resist increase with co cap use.
Well I would use it for sure
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1097
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Batelle wrote:+ Increase the repair amount for all armor repairers (including AARs) by 15%
+ Increase the shield bonus of all shield boosters (except for deadspace/officer reps and ASBs) by 15%
I would like to point out that this results in a boost to all local tanking except for the deadspace shield boosters. This is a good thing as we both A) don't get anything nerfed. B) non-deadspace shield boosting as well as armor tanking of the pimped and non-pimped variety becomes more viable.
This is something that has been needed for years, independent of any changes to links. Bravo.
Right now, the gap in between local armor reps and shield reps is already huge but instead of fixing that a 15% buff to armor reps is followed by a 10% boost to all shield boosters.
So in the end my armor ships will still be far behing my shield ships, it's a step forward and a half back. 
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1115
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 11:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Also yes, everything above a single player is a blob.
Nope, it's several things but not a blob:
1-an MMO is a gaming/social experience and social means several people interacting together, opposite is antisocial and any psychiatrist will tell you MMOs are not well suited for those people that are rather disturbing elements in whatever social interaction.
2-selling point of Eve is not "twinks online" for that there are several known private servers of almost every game where day 1 you get tops stuff and program to create your own super ultra twink, but becomes quickly boring heh?
3-choosing to play solo in Eve has a much different impact than in any other game. Because losses have meanings, because scripts are not aloud (still many use bots and programs to enhance significantly their in game abilities) and because Eve is about numbers, like it or hate it that's how it is, REAL solo players never complain and ACT - take a look at some Kill2 videos to figure what is a real solo player in Eve and not another random pawn with boosters at pos and cloak support if things turn bad for him because his KB would look shameful (in his poor mind) if he looses one ship and at the same time not shameful with hundreds of cyno frigs killed
In Eve there are groups of players interacting one way or another with each other but everything is about competition, solo combat players are not representative of the game core or selling argument.
Doesn't mean they don't have their place but just that they have to play with the exact same rubicube everyone else in Eve does and stop complaining about "blob" here "blob" there, if they really hate that much interact with other players they can always play google games and sudoku.
On topic, while armor reps are getting a bit better and before going even further on whatever nerf/buff CCP Fozzie should really consider the feedback from all threads about this for a couple years, there's one constant coming back every single time: Efficiency HPs/cap because it's the only one that matters with local reps and in this specific department armor are a huge lie with used words to describe it like "sustainability", wtf is this lie when you have to use cap booster changers that ARE FINITE???
CCP trolling always best trolling.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1121
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 16:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
raawe wrote:Cost is also problem with rep paste (AAR) but i'm leaning more towards buffing AAR some more to justify it's rep cost. If only one module is allowed it should at least be comparable to ASB's
Add insult to injury: still uses cap while boosting with nanites
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1121
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 16:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:So where should armor tanking lay then?
"Should" is what many are exposing here with numbers etc but not ready to happen.
This leads to the silliness or armor ships shield fitting, and no one either wants to discuss seriously about it or thinks it's a mart move by doing so when it clearly shows it's not a smart thinking but the only choice to make those armor setups viable.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1121
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 17:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:raawe wrote:Cost is also problem with rep paste (AAR) but i'm leaning more towards buffing AAR some more to justify it's rep cost. If only one module is allowed it should at least be comparable to ASB's Add insult to injury: still uses cap while boosting with nanites I more look at it, Add insult to injury: still requires cap booster to manage cap needs, while burning up nanite paste.
Yep
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1125
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 11:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Seriously? Do people even think about this stuff before posting it? I'm going to go enjoy my 4000 DPS tank on my strategic cruiser.
Loki/Tengu for sure you can, even with a medium Pithum A-type and "elite pvp skills/implants/booster" you get already 1100 so 4K fitting a large one is not hard already, Proteus/Legion 4k active tank?- no way.
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1141
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 13:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Everything has a counter (except the 100mn tengu... sigh)
Web bonus armor Loki with faction point, huge speed strong tank and once it gets on top of it Tengu melts
In groups it's even easier, get a lachesis a pilgrim and fast frig with med asb or aar, point and burn it.
If there are so many legends about 100mn Tengus it's because players want to bring conventional setups to fight unconventional fits.
It's like shooting explosive dmg on a shield navy domi: worthless
it's like bring a single scram on a fight against missile frigs: worthless you'll never point one if the pilot is not a dumb one
Tengus are not as strong as many claim just because they don't pick the right tools to fight them. As soon as any 100mn pilot gets web by a loki at 40km don't worry, 100mn or not he will run away unless he gets friends on grid (at some point all fights I have lost with my different Tengu set ups were all vs web bonus lokis asbnano fitted, they're close to impossible to kill for a tengu unless bad fits or bad pilot)
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